No Tax Hike Left Behind
By
Scott Reeves
Nov 04, 2008 7:20 am
Minyanville's last-minute election coverage.
Senator Barack Obama is a either a naïf or a ninny.
Based on his tax proposals, the key to any economic program, the nincompoop out-points the naïf.
Here’s why: Obama proposes to raise taxes in a recession, making himself Herbert Hoover II.
Obama’s economic program won’t promote growth. Campaign twaddle about “fairness” and “spreading the wealth” are instead intended to buy votes with taxpayer dollars by creating new constituencies or subsidizing old ones. That’s the real point of federally funded pre-school, universal but “voluntary” healthcare, and a “refundable tax credit” for “needy” college students. Senator John McCain is forthright when he says he doesn’t know much about the economy. But he has a record as a free-trader and has consistently opposed subsidies and trade barriers.
During the primaries, Obama talked about renegotiating NAFTA. Privately, his campaign assured Canada, our largest trading partner, that he didn’t mean it. Hallelujah: It was just Bubba bait, not “change you can believe in.”
Obama promises tax cuts for 95% of all Americans. But how does that work when the bottom 30% or so of wage earners don’t pay federal income taxes? No income taxes to refund? No problem because a tax credit (targeted, of course) will do. File this under “redistribute the wealth.”
Obama would slap a 6.2% payroll tax on incomes above $250,000, a killer for the nation’s 26 million small business owners, who generally pay individual taxes.
VP candidate Joe Biden uttered an inconvenient truth when he said the tax-cut threshold would be lowered to $150,000. Still, Obama’s current tax plans won’t cover his proposed spending increases. That means he’ll raise taxes on the middle class.
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Reply
2008-11-04 08:21:43
The blind leading the blind with half truths and lies.
The top rate went from 25% to 63% during the great depression. This is hardly what Obama proposes.
Also, President Sarah Palin. Just sounds dangerous.
The top rate went from 25% to 63% during the great depression. This is hardly what Obama proposes.
Also, President Sarah Palin. Just sounds dangerous.
2008-11-04 10:01:01
How about President Biden? Make you fell better!
But we should all know that this is not much the Gov can do to help but a lot it can do to screw things up.
The baby boom has peaked in spending and savings and its all down hill for awhile until the mini-boom that started in 1975 comes of economic age. about 2020.
But we should all know that this is not much the Gov can do to help but a lot it can do to screw things up.
The baby boom has peaked in spending and savings and its all down hill for awhile until the mini-boom that started in 1975 comes of economic age. about 2020.
2008-11-04 10:15:26
More Obama To Do's
You forgot to mention the other seminal points of Obama's Master Plan:
- Confiscate all the guns in America and destroy them in a bonfire on the South Lawn
- Mandate that all women have at least one abortion to juice Planned Parenthood's revenue stream
- Name Hillary Clinton as Secretary of the newly created Governmental Intrusion Department to ensure that Americans receive the least effective, most bureaucratic health care on the planet.
- Order Joe Biden to marry another man to "set the right example" for the nation.
Of course, I'm just joking. In reality, the mantle of 21st Century Herbert Hoover has already been claimed by the fellow currently occupying our grandest house. And no amount of pretend data or last-minute displays of cross-eyed partisanship will change that.
- Confiscate all the guns in America and destroy them in a bonfire on the South Lawn
- Mandate that all women have at least one abortion to juice Planned Parenthood's revenue stream
- Name Hillary Clinton as Secretary of the newly created Governmental Intrusion Department to ensure that Americans receive the least effective, most bureaucratic health care on the planet.
- Order Joe Biden to marry another man to "set the right example" for the nation.
Of course, I'm just joking. In reality, the mantle of 21st Century Herbert Hoover has already been claimed by the fellow currently occupying our grandest house. And no amount of pretend data or last-minute displays of cross-eyed partisanship will change that.
2008-11-04 11:43:19
blech
Embarrassed that Minyanville let this through into my RSS reader. Puleeze.. stick to the financial infotainment and leave this sort of fear mongering to Bill O'Reilly.
2008-11-04 12:55:09
Mr. Reeves relies on the boilerplate statement that "tax increases kill growth". Then he goes on to site Clinton's tax increase in 1994, during which we heard the same tired arguments. Correct me if I am wrong, but at the end of the Clinton era, the problem was too much growth (and a surplus to boot).
As for Obama's ambitious spending plans, it will certainly be at least partially offset by the certainty that he will turn off the cash burn in Iraq much sooner than the 1,000 years that McCain envisions. I'm not crazy about more spending, but if only we had all the money Bush threw out the window in Iraq and to insurance companies through the bogus Medicare drug plan.
Obama is not the savior, but McCain is 10 years past his prime, and at best Bush lite. We need to give an anti-Bush a shot.
As for Obama's ambitious spending plans, it will certainly be at least partially offset by the certainty that he will turn off the cash burn in Iraq much sooner than the 1,000 years that McCain envisions. I'm not crazy about more spending, but if only we had all the money Bush threw out the window in Iraq and to insurance companies through the bogus Medicare drug plan.
Obama is not the savior, but McCain is 10 years past his prime, and at best Bush lite. We need to give an anti-Bush a shot.
2008-11-04 13:13:12
What wored for Dubya?
"It's a law of nature: Cut tax rates, the economy booms and tax receipts grow. It worked for Presidents Kennedy, Reagan and Dubyuh. Note to Obama: Spending balloons the deficit - not tax cuts."
It worked for Dubyuh?! What's the deficit projection for 2009 again? Talk about drinking the cool aid! The only thing that 'worked' for Dubya was fostering a huge asset bubble in real estate to generate an enormously disproportionate percentage of GDP and paper wealth. Examine the evidence, republican rule hasn't been about free markets for a generation, it is about corporatism, and it has now devastated our markets and our nation as a whole. The author and his ilk would be much better served by taking a hard look in the mirror than simply renewing the standard republican rhetoric. Republicans have no one but themselves to blame for the outcome of this election, and that is the key to their salvation. Small 'r' republicans, take back your party!
It worked for Dubyuh?! What's the deficit projection for 2009 again? Talk about drinking the cool aid! The only thing that 'worked' for Dubya was fostering a huge asset bubble in real estate to generate an enormously disproportionate percentage of GDP and paper wealth. Examine the evidence, republican rule hasn't been about free markets for a generation, it is about corporatism, and it has now devastated our markets and our nation as a whole. The author and his ilk would be much better served by taking a hard look in the mirror than simply renewing the standard republican rhetoric. Republicans have no one but themselves to blame for the outcome of this election, and that is the key to their salvation. Small 'r' republicans, take back your party!
2008-11-04 13:32:38
IDIOT. LIAR. FOOL.
Sorry, but let me make one thing perfectly clear: there has never, ever, ever, ever been a tax cut which caused tax receipts to grow.
No state ever does it.
No nation under the IMF ever does it.
No Eurozone nation ever does it.
It does not work. It has never worked. Both Dubya and Reagan had enormous increases in the deficit. Kennedy cut out so many tax deductions that the amount of taxable income was vastly increased irrespective of growth.
This is a lie from the pit of hell. If that is part of your argument for voting for McCain you should be ashamed of yourself.
No state ever does it.
No nation under the IMF ever does it.
No Eurozone nation ever does it.
It does not work. It has never worked. Both Dubya and Reagan had enormous increases in the deficit. Kennedy cut out so many tax deductions that the amount of taxable income was vastly increased irrespective of growth.
This is a lie from the pit of hell. If that is part of your argument for voting for McCain you should be ashamed of yourself.
2008-11-04 14:54:19
IDIOT. LIAR. FOOL.
Marx and Lenin controlled the media to persecute the religious and other competitors to state control.
Our media and left leaning political machines are no different; you must be reading their propaganda.
Here is a report directly refuting your claim, compiled by the Joint Economic Committee of the Congress:
http://www.house.gov/jec/fiscal/tx-grwth/reagtxct/reagtxct.htm
If you don't believe it, use a simple example. If states raised sales taxes would it decrease consumption? Of course it would. If the tax on new $20,000 car went from $1,200 or 6% to $7,200 or 36% many fewer cars would be sold. Or...car buyers would get their car in another state.
Confiscatory taxes encourage tax evasion, cheating, or moving money or self overseas. Who can afford to do that? The wealthy. Increased taxes also decrease investment, new business creation, risk taking, innovation, and employment.
The burden of increased taxes and spending will fall upon the middle class, it always does. Economic cycles are usually independent of political cycles. The economy usually survives idiots being in office.
The real issue is your ability to own property, speech, vote, and other basic civil liberties. Centralized governments strive to take these away via taxation, control of media (fairness doctrine), eminent domain to increase tax revenue (already happened - your house is not yours), and military control (take away your guns).
No doubt there were Germans who warned that Hitler was dangerous, but people were so desperate for "change" that they got on the bandwagon and derided anyone who cautioned against it.
We are going down a road of "change" and nationalistic fervor that seeks to remove our basic rights and ability to succeed as individuals. It's a train to he*l but everyone wants to jump on becuse it feels good. Kind of like a bender at the craps table or a mob lynching until you wake up the next morning.
Frightening indeed.
Our media and left leaning political machines are no different; you must be reading their propaganda.
Here is a report directly refuting your claim, compiled by the Joint Economic Committee of the Congress:
http://www.house.gov/jec/fiscal/tx-grwth/reagtxct/reagtxct.htm
If you don't believe it, use a simple example. If states raised sales taxes would it decrease consumption? Of course it would. If the tax on new $20,000 car went from $1,200 or 6% to $7,200 or 36% many fewer cars would be sold. Or...car buyers would get their car in another state.
Confiscatory taxes encourage tax evasion, cheating, or moving money or self overseas. Who can afford to do that? The wealthy. Increased taxes also decrease investment, new business creation, risk taking, innovation, and employment.
The burden of increased taxes and spending will fall upon the middle class, it always does. Economic cycles are usually independent of political cycles. The economy usually survives idiots being in office.
The real issue is your ability to own property, speech, vote, and other basic civil liberties. Centralized governments strive to take these away via taxation, control of media (fairness doctrine), eminent domain to increase tax revenue (already happened - your house is not yours), and military control (take away your guns).
No doubt there were Germans who warned that Hitler was dangerous, but people were so desperate for "change" that they got on the bandwagon and derided anyone who cautioned against it.
We are going down a road of "change" and nationalistic fervor that seeks to remove our basic rights and ability to succeed as individuals. It's a train to he*l but everyone wants to jump on becuse it feels good. Kind of like a bender at the craps table or a mob lynching until you wake up the next morning.
Frightening indeed.
2008-11-04 15:42:19
Godwin's Law
Ah! Godwin's Law at work.
If the anti-Obama crowd would tone down the rhetoric just a bit, more people would listen. Obama isn't Hitler any more than George Bush is Stalin or the media is a 'left leaning political machine'.
There are rational arguments to be made against both Obama and McCain's policies, including taxes, but with so much of the Obama criticism fantasy-based notions about socialism, Civilian Defense Forces, Hitler analogies, etc., the majority of reasonable people have just tuned out.
If the anti-Obama crowd would tone down the rhetoric just a bit, more people would listen. Obama isn't Hitler any more than George Bush is Stalin or the media is a 'left leaning political machine'.
There are rational arguments to be made against both Obama and McCain's policies, including taxes, but with so much of the Obama criticism fantasy-based notions about socialism, Civilian Defense Forces, Hitler analogies, etc., the majority of reasonable people have just tuned out.
2008-11-04 15:57:49
Scott Reeves is a ninny
Or, Obama's plan to rollback George Bush's valentine gifts to the richest tax payers causes Scott Reeves to start ranting.
"Bill Clinton promised a middle-class tax cut - and then signed the biggest tax hike in history."
Nevermind that George H.W. Bush did the same and that Bill Clinton actually balanced the budget in cooperation with a Republican Congress. Reagan also rolled back part of his tax cuts by the way.
"Increased government spending hurts the economy"
This, in flat opposition to most economists who now argue that increased spending by government is now required to replace the consumer and corporate dollars that will be inveitably hoarded. Even Reagan approved government spending to pull the economy out a ditch in the early 80s.
", because it displaces money that can be more efficiently used in the private sector."
Really? The billions of losses in the private sector banks that now require taxpayer money are plain for everyone to see. Except for Scott, who only sees phantom efficiencies.
"High tax rates are a disincentive to work"
Not during Clinton's time they were not. The 90s were not exactly an economic wasteland with the taxation levels at that time, which is all that Obama has proposed going back to.
To paraphrase Scott, "Obama's planned tax hikes would kill innovation and gut nation's competitiveness in global markets."
Would Obama actually do more damage than today's administration which is in thrall to crony-capitalism and is determined to weaken even the working government agencies. To point out just a few instances, this administration has forced the SEC to work without its full complement of directors and the IRS to work without the workforce it needs. It has forced the IRS to re-direct its meager resources to hunt low income fraud rather than high income and corporate fraud where most of tax evasion happens.
Good riddance to George Bush and John McCain. And to lies and incompetence.
Obama will more than compensate the high taxes collected by providing competent governance for the middle class. Scott's bileous pathetic excuses for supply side economics that have failed and landed us in the mess we are today will keep being made till the end of time. Regular middle class folks would have to be Dumb and blind to what's happening today to keep listening to them.
"Bill Clinton promised a middle-class tax cut - and then signed the biggest tax hike in history."
Nevermind that George H.W. Bush did the same and that Bill Clinton actually balanced the budget in cooperation with a Republican Congress. Reagan also rolled back part of his tax cuts by the way.
"Increased government spending hurts the economy"
This, in flat opposition to most economists who now argue that increased spending by government is now required to replace the consumer and corporate dollars that will be inveitably hoarded. Even Reagan approved government spending to pull the economy out a ditch in the early 80s.
", because it displaces money that can be more efficiently used in the private sector."
Really? The billions of losses in the private sector banks that now require taxpayer money are plain for everyone to see. Except for Scott, who only sees phantom efficiencies.
"High tax rates are a disincentive to work"
Not during Clinton's time they were not. The 90s were not exactly an economic wasteland with the taxation levels at that time, which is all that Obama has proposed going back to.
To paraphrase Scott, "Obama's planned tax hikes would kill innovation and gut nation's competitiveness in global markets."
Would Obama actually do more damage than today's administration which is in thrall to crony-capitalism and is determined to weaken even the working government agencies. To point out just a few instances, this administration has forced the SEC to work without its full complement of directors and the IRS to work without the workforce it needs. It has forced the IRS to re-direct its meager resources to hunt low income fraud rather than high income and corporate fraud where most of tax evasion happens.
Good riddance to George Bush and John McCain. And to lies and incompetence.
Obama will more than compensate the high taxes collected by providing competent governance for the middle class. Scott's bileous pathetic excuses for supply side economics that have failed and landed us in the mess we are today will keep being made till the end of time. Regular middle class folks would have to be Dumb and blind to what's happening today to keep listening to them.
2008-11-04 16:22:19
Godwin's Law
Fact: Obama said rural people "Cling to their religion and their guns."
Sounds very much like Marx and "Religion is the opitate of the people."
Fact: Liberal politicians have outlawed and confiscated firearms in D.C. and New Orleans.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Political_positions_of_Barack_Obama#Gun_control
Fact: The majority media outlets, television and newspaper, supported Obama and Democrats and a liberal agenda. Besides Fox and talk radio, it is endemic and you would have to try to not see it to believe in journalistic integrity.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Media_bias_in_the_United_States
Fact: You do not have property rights, a municipality can take away your property, your home, in order to sell it to a developer who will increase the tax base for the municipality. How people can ignore this and believe they have rights is bizarre.
All you have to read is the first two paragraphs of what is below.
http://www.law.cornell.edu/supct/html/04-108.ZD.html
Fact: People like Stalin and Hitler came to power precisecly because the masses were "reasonable" (delusional) and "rational" (emotionally delusion masqueraded as reason). They were judged by what they promised; not their character or who they were or what they believed.
Sounds very much like Marx and "Religion is the opitate of the people."
Fact: Liberal politicians have outlawed and confiscated firearms in D.C. and New Orleans.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Political_positions_of_Barack_Obama#Gun_control
Fact: The majority media outlets, television and newspaper, supported Obama and Democrats and a liberal agenda. Besides Fox and talk radio, it is endemic and you would have to try to not see it to believe in journalistic integrity.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Media_bias_in_the_United_States
Fact: You do not have property rights, a municipality can take away your property, your home, in order to sell it to a developer who will increase the tax base for the municipality. How people can ignore this and believe they have rights is bizarre.
All you have to read is the first two paragraphs of what is below.
http://www.law.cornell.edu/supct/html/04-108.ZD.html
Fact: People like Stalin and Hitler came to power precisecly because the masses were "reasonable" (delusional) and "rational" (emotionally delusion masqueraded as reason). They were judged by what they promised; not their character or who they were or what they believed.
2008-11-04 16:31:41
Godwin's Law
reductio ad Hitlerum? Come, come now...Intellectual obfuscation isn't helpful either.
Shall we ignore history and reality?
My point is that despots and dictators take power when the masses are desperate and ignore the character of the people they support or their policies in favor of change for the sake of change.
Obama is supported because he has Rasputin like charisma, Lies through his teeth about who he is and what he believes, make people feel good about themselves supporting because they themselves are assuaging guilt foisted upon them by reverse-racism, and because he represents change for the sake of change. The American psyche must buy a new car, get a new lover, or elect a new President to make things better.
I'm sorry you don't see the insanity. The more we sit on the fence and equivocate and ignore facts the more likely we are to collapse and/or have a civil war.
2008-11-04 17:19:50
Godwin's Law
Look, Eric, I'm not a defender of the 'liberal democratic agenda' any more than I'm a defender of the 'vast right wing conspiracy'. I'm trying to give you an objective assessment of how to reach your target audience- you would be more effective if your criticisms weren't so tinged with paranoia. For starters, don't reference Marx or Hitler.
I hope you were this rabidly anti-bush, because after 8 years of neocon rule, we've got a crony corporate state and an imploding economy. In my opinion, all of this 'liberal bias this' and 'conservative ideologue' that only serves to obscure the fact that corporate, and especially banking, hegemony are pulling the strings of government regardless of party. By keeping us divided along ideological lines, the power elite can rule regardless of which party wins the day.
I hope you were this rabidly anti-bush, because after 8 years of neocon rule, we've got a crony corporate state and an imploding economy. In my opinion, all of this 'liberal bias this' and 'conservative ideologue' that only serves to obscure the fact that corporate, and especially banking, hegemony are pulling the strings of government regardless of party. By keeping us divided along ideological lines, the power elite can rule regardless of which party wins the day.
2008-11-04 19:42:01
Sugested reading
To put the above arguments into some kind of intellectual context please read:
Road to Serfdom by Hayek
and
The Ominous Parallels by Leonard Peikoff
Road to Serfdom by Hayek
and
The Ominous Parallels by Leonard Peikoff
2008-11-04 21:50:35
Godwin's Law
JP - We agree!
I'm extremely dissapointed with Bush as far as illegal immigration, increasing spending and government, and the whole Bernanke/Paulson Goldman Sachs banking bailout, etc. He did right to invade Iraq, but we should have done it with four times the force and we should be getting a cut of the oil profits and reparations for freeing them from Saddam and setting up bases to ensure the free flow of oil from the Middle East to run the tractors and combines so we can eat and keep feeding the world.
Yes, they keep the game going by pitting sides against each other, very true.
I'm not trying to reach a target audience or persuade anyone.
I think we need a good civil war to clean things up and return to morality and the constitution or give up the pretense and just admit we will have a socialist kleptocracy with severely limited individual rights.
2008-11-04 22:08:49
Godwin's Law
'I may disapprove of what you say, but I will defend with my life your right to say it.'
-Attrib. Voltaire
-Attrib. Voltaire
2008-11-04 22:33:39
Sugested reading
Thank you, great suggestions.
I need to calm down and realize I am powerless, then plan my retirement in Singapore or some other far flung warm climate with good food and attractive young women.
I need to calm down and realize I am powerless, then plan my retirement in Singapore or some other far flung warm climate with good food and attractive young women.
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