What Must Happen Before We See Recovery

By Peter Atwater Sep 11, 2009 8:45 am
Stimulus may take away some pain, but our current excesses remain significant.
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On Wednesday, Tony Dwyer shared a historical chart of consumer credit on the Buzz & Banter, suggesting that the balance declines we've recently seen are bullish, and that they support the notion of a strong V-shaped recovery.

And yesterday, the Financial Times reported that Goldman Sach’s economist James O’Neill offered that “deleveraging will pose the greatest drag on growth” in the short run, but there are a number of other positive offsets.

It feels like everywhere I turn, “deleveraging” is the word of the moment, and the range of opinions on its implications is vast.

As I've written many times before, I believe that we're in the midst of a secular deleveraging process where debt will be destroyed either through repayment, default, or shareholder dilution. Put simply, going into this crisis, there was just too much.

I contrast my view with others -- such as Dwyer -- who suggest that the deleveraging process underway is cyclical in nature. Not to bore readers with too much economic mumbo jumbo, but for this to be cyclical versus secular, one must believe that lower interest rates will spur incremental borrowing. To me, that's the key premise behind a monetary response to an economic recession. Make money cheap and people will use it to grow.

For the past year, thanks to the extraordinary actions of the Federal Reserve, we've had about as close to free money as you can find -- and enormous amounts of it no less. But in talking with consumers and corporations, I can find no one who wants to borrow incremental amounts of it. Refinance what they have at lower rates, absolutely -- if they can. But borrow more? No thank you.

Like the kid offered more Halloween candy on November 1, US borrowers know they have already overindulged. And to me, that's a significantly different phenomenon than I've seen in any recession in my lifetime.

Unfortunately for policy makers, it sets the foundation for a failed Field of Dreams. If we build it, they still won’t come. In a depression -- which is what I believe we're experiencing -- credit demand won't return until the economy is resized to levels appropriate for a “near-cash” economy where people save and then spend.

Needless to say, I think we're far away from that. And so until our level of debt and industry capacity are reduced, no real recovery will take place.

Now that doesn’t mean that fiscal stimulus can’t slow the process and potentially take out some of the sting. But we must realize that our current excesses remain significant.
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(10)
2009-09-11 09:00:56
Credit
How far down do we go until we hit cash only? Will we base at 11% of GDP?

http://tinyurl.com/l3x6oy
2009-09-11 09:52:58
So What?
All this gloom and doom as the DOW reaches once again for the 10,000 mark
2009-09-11 09:54:37
something new to me -
your note:

"...for this to be cyclical versus secular, one must believe that lower interest rates will spur incremental borrowing...." -

was a nice clarifier, thanks!

i see much the same in my financial neck of the woods, very little if any new borrowing...no thank you ;-)
2009-09-11 10:03:26
In between
I think once people pay off their "bad" debt (which they seem to be in the process of doing rapidly-like penance), it's not that they won't want to borrow anymore, it's just that they will borrow more selectively to purchase higher value items (like property, other real assets, to finance a business, get more education, etc.). This kind of "good" borrowing will not go away and may increase as people will be more desperate to distinguish themselves in the workforce. It seems like everyone will become smarter and more selective with their borrowing and only seek out borrowing that will support activities that have potentially higher future values (not lower). Ok, maybe not property yet. So, it won't be the same volume as before, but it won't quite fall off a cliff forever.
2009-09-11 10:25:02
In between
I think that as people pay off their debts, they will realize that the government and banking corporations have gotten together and created new ones for them to pay.

They won't be borrowing money because it's already been done for them.
2009-09-11 11:04:51
In between
I second that. we already see what "cash for clunkers" with tax payer money has done. people otherwise would not buy a new car are taking on new debts. I wouldn't classify them as good debts (vs. education loans)
2009-09-11 12:18:21
In between
Yeah...'cause we all know how important it is to go into debt to get a piece of paper that says you can read books that were available in the 'socialist' libraries......

There are no good debts except the ones your neighbors owe you for helping them.

The rest is just money, and that means that debt puts you at the mercy of a central authority which prints the money, distributes the money, and changes the value of the money.
The things you do without money don't change in value when the government falls.
2009-09-14 12:56:53
In between
It could be even more interesting. like fractional reserve lending increases the supply of money in the system by a large factor removing debit should remove a share of the fake fiat money the banksters have to play with if enough is removed the thieves may find that they are in bigger trouble
2009-09-14 17:48:50
In between
I think you're on the right track in a couple of ways, Gina. First, the leveraging of the fractional reserve seems to be multiplying the pressure on the government to support the base money as the debts fail which were extracted from the reserves, and second, the government is using money out of thin air (loaned into fractional existence) to do so.
I can't wait to see how this economic engine flames out. Instead of a choice between the 'cancer and the car crash', as Toddo put it last year; the government gave us cancer (the fluoride conspiracy) and THEN flies us into our own house with an airplane that our grandchildren are buying for us to get out of the house.
2009-09-14 17:59:21
Try to get a loan not subsidized by Uncle Sam
You can get a Jumbo mortage in Miami for only 40% down with 5% closing costs and an 8% interest rate.......If the bank thinks you qualify. Lending isn't happening becuase it is almost impossible to get a loan not backed by Uncle Sam. GM is doing 0 % financing because of government support. 95% of mortages are being done by the GSAs.Try and get a small business loan right now. Good luck.
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