China First to Recover from Recession?

By William Fleckenstein Dec 03, 2008 10:00 am
Despite problems, Chinese market still performing better than almost any other.
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I just returned from China, and I must say I was very impressed by everything I saw there. Admittedly, my sample set was small. I only visited 3 cities: Beijing, Shanghai and Hangzhou; those aren't representative of the entire country. Nevertheless, I was fortunate enough to meet with some people who really know a lot about how the country functions.

I think the most important thing for folks to understand is that China hasn't suffered the epic credit binge that much of the rest of the world has. The savings rate is high in China. Mortgage products require sensible down payments. Credit is something that hasn't quite come to China yet (although I understand credit cards have recently become more available, especially in the big cities). People pay cash for most things, though they do use debit cards.

From a credit standpoint, it seems similar to how life in America used to be when Leave It to Beaver ruled the airways. Meanwhile, the people whom I met were very industrious, and their enthusiasm seemed quite high. (As a traveler, I was happy to discover that the airports were new, and the bags arrived quickly.)

The biggest problem China faces is its dependence on exports. A large subset of the export issue is the fact that China has roughly 150 million itinerant/migrant workers -- yes, you read that number right -- in the south, who've moved there from the west. (Away from the big cities, life is very difficult and people are very poor.)

But China understands its problem, and is working overtime to stimulate the domestic economy. And there's a lot they can do. More importantly, they have the reserves with which to do so, having accumulated a couple trillion dollars nationally.

Thus China isn't without its problems. (I have left out many, and don't mean to gloss over them.) But relative to the problems faced by most countries, China's seem at least to be manageable, and don't stem from having borrowed and spent their heads off.

The other thing to note is that the "capitalistic" progress they've made is really only 15 or 20 years old. So,it is very early in the "China miracle," if you will. And, as I mentioned earlier, even though the cities are modern and their infrastructure is very new, much of what I saw from a socioeconomic standpoint leads me to conclude that China is more like America was in the 50s and 60s. I therefore reached the following completely obvious conclusion: China is the wave of the future.

I intend to do plenty of research in the coming months, because there's an awful lot to learn if one wants to be an investor there - not least of which is to decide which exchange (and shares) to use: Singapore, Hong Kong, Shanghai and/or Shenzen. One also needs to be aware that there is a serious old-boy network in China, related to its bureaucratic communist party structure - though it seems to me that they are communist in name only, and capitalists at heart.

For anyone who'd like to learn more, I recommend a book called Mr. China by Tim Clissold. (After being introduced by a friend, I was lucky enough to spend a couple hours talking with him.) The book will give folks an understanding of how difficult it has been in the past to do business in China. Given the recent decline in stock prices, the indices are not all that far from where they were in the mid- to late 90s, when everyone thought that China had so much promise - before so many folks got burned.

However, I think a lot of those problems have been dealt with, especially the failed joint ventures and the related bad assets in the banking system. In sum, I believe that China will probably be the first country to recover from the worldwide recession.

Finally, it's worth noting that China's stock market has performed so much better recently than virtually any other market, with Monday's performance a good example. Stay tuned.
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(6)
2008-12-03 10:10:35
China "capitalistic" progress older than 20 yr..
Thanks for good article. I like it because it agrees with what I have thought for some time :-).

An old china hand I know who was doing oil deals there in the late 70's told me china has been growing (based on relaxation of communist ideology, ie, "capitalism") for 30 yr.
2008-12-03 10:37:37
Stimulous
Question: I wonder if China will cut back on purchasing Treasuries, or even begin to cash in Treasuries, to fund it's 500 Billion plus stimulous package?
Answer: I don't know, do you?
2008-12-03 10:41:32
True, but only in time...
I think it's true that if China may well lead the world out of the coming morass but I don't think it'll be quite so easy or timely a process. Absent any tradition of democratic rule, the manner in which China chooses to deal with the civil unrest that is already bubbling across the country--and will likely worsen next year--will be very telling about where the country is headed. If you haven't read the World Bank's recent quarterly report on China, it's worth your taking the time to do so. It provides a clear-eyed view of both China's current strengths and weaknesses. You can access it here:

http://siteresources.worldbank.org/INTCHINA/Resources/Quarterly_December_2008.pdf
2008-12-03 14:06:04
Its all about money stupid
Am I the only one struggling to do the math here. China's 2 trillion in foreign reserves sounds big.

But just under half has been earmarked for their internal stimulus package.
That doesnt leave much to lend to the US does it.
The TARP is rapidly burning through the 750 billion allocated and there is obviously much more required.
The eurozone has commited 100's of billions
The UK ditto

Forget the oil producing nations they say they are struggling to make ends meet at these current "low" prices due to their new found reliance on spending to broaden their own economies for a post oil environment.

So if China's mercantile relationship with the US where they recycle their reserves back into US treasuries, is to continue , then it will be at the expense of their own internal stimulus programme.

I have grave fears for the short term in china. The miracle relied on unsustainable consumption from the western (debtor) nations. Most of that consumption relied almost exclusively on 2 things
1. never ending credit card credit
2. Mortgage equity withdrawal from never ending house price increases

Recently it was speculated that there will be a 2 trillion contraction in credit card facilities.
Over the past 18 months we have seen the massive contraction in housing prices world wide
The chinese can look forward to very significant contraction in their export markets which will put further pressure on the foreign reserves

2008-12-03 23:03:05
Not so fast...
I must take issue with some of your comments/assumptions.

Yes, your sample set is incredibly small. The cities you mentioned do not have a high degree of exposure to industries that have been most affected by current economic conditions. Do a little investigation around the GPRD (greater pearl river delta) area or western China and you will be singing a much different tune. Many constructs are being ripped apart at the seams in those areas.

So you happened to meet up with people who really know about country functions eh? I have been travelling to China for many years (some 20+ trips) and have met with business and government leaders on occasion. I have learned that Chinese in general are masters at convincing you of what they want you to believe. They are, for the most part, very astute in their businesses, negotiations and communications.

Yes, Chinese do have a higher 'short-term' savings rate, meaning that they sock away a much higher % of income that most other countries. But at the end of the day, this money gets spent. It is very common for many not-so-well-to-do chinese to spend a lot of money they do not have on a highly depreciating asset such as a car just because they believe it will open social and economic opporutnities (status, face, etc). Spending money they do not have, you say? Yes, that is correct. This is a common misconception that many have about Chinese not having debt. This is simply not true. The average chinese citizen has debt just like citizens from most other countries (probably with the exception of massive debt societies such as USA, some western europe, etc). The main difference is that they borrow from family and friends instead of the typical established lending institutions we are used to. Then they eventually, and sometimes slowly, pay them back. For example, a manager at a factory I work with in western china recently purchased a $18,000 buick (most chinese desire foreign cars, they do not want domestic brands...its about face) on a monthly salary of $350. And he paid cash for it to boot! How you wonder? He was able to borrow $16,000 from family, friends and others to go along with his $2,000 that he saved. He will be paying this debt for some time. And this is more the rule than the exception.

Yes, most airports and other infrastructure are relatively new and efficient. The chinese have went to great lengths to study the west to adopt the positive and to avoid the mistakes, as well as mixing in their own ingredients. The results have been respectable in most instances.

The remainder of your article, the true meat and potatoes of it, is spot on. But it does seem you are underestimating and mitigating their reliance on foreign exports. This could have dire consequences if this gets much worse for them. The government is pulling out all the stops to try to stem the bleeding. Lets hope it works for everyone's sake. A china with a great deal of instability is not a good thing for anyone.

As to your intentions, it might be benficial to study up a bit on your Jim roger's. He departed on the same conclusion/path some years ago and, while it is important to do your own dd, you might experience a little value add.

Good article.
gan bei!!!!!
2008-12-04 11:44:27
Accounting
Has anyone done a study of whether the accounting statements coming out of China are accurate? The Chinese government has an interest in almost all major Chinese business entities and a large influence in foreign companies doing business in China. We have numerous examples of conflict of interests skewing valuations--for example, valuations of sub-prime bonds, or of Enron's accounting statements. Are accountants analyzing Chinese businesses free from any pressure from the government, and if not, how can anyone make an accurate statement about the state of the Chinese economy? I do not have any accurate information one way or the other, but this seems to be a crucial issue to resolve before we can say much about the economy of China (or any other coutnry). The most beautiful factory in the world may be owned by a very solvent, or very insolvent, company.
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