Why You Shouldn't Get Charged Up About the Electric Car

By Scott Reeves Aug 12, 2009 2:05 pm
What happens when everyone everyone plugs in at once?
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Electric cars create dreams of lower oil imports, blue skies and reduced operating costs for owners. The news this week that the Chevy Volt, the electric car from General Motors, will get 230 miles to the gallon in city driving only reinforced those dreams.

But what happens to the nation’s grid if millions of people seek to recharge their hybrid vehicles each day after work? Or worse, what happens if many owners, cognizant of the limited charge in the battery, ignore daily peak demand and give their cars a quick jolt while at work, when stopping at the supermarket or a friend’s house?

The short answer: new demand created by gas-electric vehicles can be managed if – and the “ifs” quickly pile up.

The Electric Power Research Institute, an independent, nonprofit organization based in Palo Alto, California, says the US now has enough capacity to charge 1 million electric vehicles at night.

But major automakers, including General Motors, Ford (F), Toyota (TM), Honda (HMC) and Nissan (NSANY) are developing hybrids. The Oak Ridge National Laboratory expects annual US sales of plug-in electric hybrid vehicles to reach 1.5 million by 2016 with 50 million on the road by 2030. Then what?

For starters, load management will be the key to future success of hybrid vehicles. The basic assumption: it will take about 8 hours to recharge a hybrid car’s battery with 110-volt current commonly used in homes.

Night charging assumes drivers will respond to variable rates and recharge their hybrids when it’s cheaper.

But what if owners don’t want to tether their vehicles to an outlet at specified times each day to manage the load? Even with incentive pricing, people need to travel at all hours as evidenced by the heavy night traffic on major highways. Governmental mandates establishing recharging hours could hammer sales of electric vehicles because significant numbers of people want their car when they want it.

Adding new generating capacity will be difficult in view of environmentalists’ routine opposition to coal or nuclear plants and hydroelectric dams. If new capacity is approved, the Not-In-My-Backyard mentality kicks in – many favor new power plants as long as they’re built somewhere else.

Battery power is the yet-to-be solved problem for hybrid vehicles and may limit their future use. The new lithium-ion batteries store enough juice to power a car for about 40 miles, sufficient for most daily commutes but little else.

The Chevy Volt is expected to cost about $40,000 and even with an anticipated tax credit of about $7,500 the car will cost more than a comparable vehicle running on stinky gasoline. Daniel Indiviglio at The Atlantic crunched the numbers and determined that, assuming gasoline hovers around $3 per gallon, you’d have to drive 158,000 miles on the Volt to break even.

The Toyota Prius costs about $22,000. Maybe the higher cost of hybrids will undercut estimates of future sales, disappointing “clean car” advocates but easing the strain on the grid.

The charging stations needed for mass adoption of electric vehicles don’t yet exist. Other than someone else, who pays?

Utilities may face added costs, too. Hybrids appear to be popular among highly educated, upscale people. It’s not difficult to imagine increased demand by Zip Code if Yuppieville goes hybrid. Will hybrid owners be asked to pay for an upgraded distribution system by neighborhood or will the costs be spread to all customers in the entire service region? There are sure to be yelps either way.

Improved storage batteries will help ease future capacity concerns, but a report prepared for New York State’s utilities warns, “If the charging pattern of plug-in electric hybrid vehicles is not managed effectively, loads of this size could require significant additional generation capacity.”

That’s a polite way of saying there is no free lunch, a truism some have ignored in their enthusiasm for environmentally friendly cars.
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(17)
2009-08-12 15:35:00
Plug in - where?
Capacity is a very big issue, but your comment about charging stations is also very important and often overlooked: if you don't live in a single family home or otherwise have access to a garage, where do you plug in your car overnight? I have friends in the EV car industry; they like to argue that "the infrastructure already exists" for EV cars, but that's not true if you live in an urban center and park on the street, or a condo/townhome/apartment with no enclosed parking. This probably isn't an issue for the first generation of EV & plug in buyers - they're likely wealthy anyway - but it's an issue that will have to be addressed if these vehicles expect to become mainstream.
2009-08-12 15:35:24
Short Sighted
What happens to the price of airline tickets, internationally shipped goods, and even the plastics that will make up the cheap cabin of the Volt? Since most US refineries are in the gasoline business, the cost to produce jet fuel, residual fuels and paraxylene will skyrocket if the margins able to be made on gasoline cease to exist. To cure the gasoline issue is only a small part in solving the petroleum dependency that the world revolves on.

Don't get me wrong, I'm all for finding a solution to this ongoing problem, but I think the answer lies in increased efficiency or NGL powered engines. And with an administration clearly against nuclear power, no chance will the recharging of all those vehicles occur without the constant roll of blackouts.
2009-08-12 15:45:21
You've missed the charging time....BIG TIME
No writer on this subject has yet consulted with an engineer to give the real story on recharge time for electric plug-ins. Using your example of a 110 volt source, in 8 hours: 15 amps x 110 volts x 8 hours = 13 kWH. 13 KW is equivalent to 18 horsepower. So, you could go for one hour at 18 horsepower. In terms of RANGE, this would get you about 10 MILES! The rule of thumb for a 110 volt charge up is 1.25 miles per hour of charge. The plug-in will NEVER be anything but a glorified golf cart. Period. Forget going up any hills. Forget about going faster than maybe 20-30 mph. Forget about air conditioning or a heater. Please write an article that talks about the reality of a plug-in. I would be very happy to consult with you to write such an article, and my numbers can be backed up with real engineering, not wishful thinking and hype.
2009-08-12 15:45:57
The heater
And when it's cold out and you turn on the heat, the electric heat, your battery runs down much faster.
2009-08-12 15:57:41
You've missed the charging time....BIG TIME
http://reviews.cnet.com/8301-13746_7-10191943-48.html

Larry

What about the Tesla Model S? Claims a quick-charge of 45 mins using 440 fast charge, or in this article here 3 hours using 220. Goes 300 miles on a charge. Goes over 100mph

This doesnt jive with ur post ..
2009-08-12 16:32:53
You've missed the charging time....BIG TIME
I've studied the Tesla claims and found that it will never be a car that can be used outside of a very short range of a charging station. The highest power charging station proposed by SAE is 240 volta at 70 amps. Using a 240 volt source at 70 amps, you can get about 37 miles per charge, assuming 100% efficiency. In reality, the overall efficiency will be about 70%, best case. This means that the one hour charge at the 240/70 will give a range of 28 miles. There is no magic. Reality: a tank of gasoline stores about 500 KWH. to deliver 500 KWH to a plug in would take 30 hours. Assuming high efficiency because of all electric, no Otto Cycle, the equivalent range efficiency would be about 2.5x better, realizing a charge time of 12 hours. Using reality of how much energy it takes to move a vehicle in "normal" situations: like 300-400 mile range, or sustained horsepower to move a car up a long hill. Sustained speed over a period of time: it takes about 80 hp to maintain speed at 80 mph: a plug-in car will always be a short range, inconvenient curiosity. Best case it will be a commuter car that will not have a useable heater or air conditioner. Please send me your email address. I have written a longer article that goes into the details of what I have written here. (The Tesla site never explains how much range for how much charge time)
2009-08-12 16:40:57
You've missed the charging time....BIG TIME
Send me the pages you are quoting from. I will respond and show you where the "marketing spin" is.
2009-08-12 17:03:37
Why is everyone so negative on this annoucement
The Auto industry has been decimated over the past year, GM finally comes out with a positive announcement and every post here is negative... It won't run in the cold...I don't have a garage...all the plastic means MORE oil consumption... How about good job GM even if it only gets half the mileage you say it blows away every other vehicle that promotes itself as fuel efficient.
2009-08-12 17:29:31
Tesla Model S
The Tesla site claims a "quick charge to 80% of capacity in 45 minutes. It claims ranges from 160, 230 and 300 miles depending on the battery pack. It claima a charging voltage source of 120v, 240v, and 480 volts. The sentence: "Three battery pack options offer a range of 160, 230 or 300 miles per charge. With the 45 minute QuickCharge or a 5 minute battery swap, you can drive from LA to San Francisco, Washington to New York or take even longer road trips in about the same time as in a conventional car." is taken from the Tesla site.

1. No house in the USA has 480 volts available.
2. I will assume that the range and quick charge time go together.

80% charge I assume will be for a 128 mile range. If I use the maximum output of a household: 240 volts at 200 amps, this will deliver 36 KWH in 45 minutes. Assume a two hour drive from LA to SFO and you hget 18 KW for two hours. 18 KW is equal to 24 horsepower. You cannot propel a car at 60 mph with 24 horsepower. Period. So, quick charge plus speed plus range are not achieved TOGETHER. They are independently achieved without the other "specs" being met: either speed and/or range. BTW, this all assumes that the efficiency of this car is 100%. The Tesla uses a liquid cooled battery, meaning losses. I will assume 80% efficiency. This reduces the horsepower OR range by 20%: 19 horsepower or 100 miles, take your pick. The LA/SFO will REQUIRE a recharge. You have to find a source of electrical power that puts out 240v/200amps. No way. SAE maximum (new, international standard connector) will be 240volts/70amps. So, a 45 minute rerecharge will deliver 12.6 KWH. good for about 50 miles, best case. If you want to get a full charge of 36 KWH it will take 45 minutes x 3 = 135 minutes. If there is only 120 volts available, make all the numbers worse/longer etc by 2X....270 minutes charge time or about 25 miles on a quick charge. 480 volts is only available in the USA on three-phase service. The claim that they have a 480 volt charging voltage is nonsense, unless you install a 240:480 volt transformer in your house and another 240 volt service of 400 amps to deliver 480 volts at 200 amps. This is a MONSTER service that will end up costing the buyer of this car about $5000 to $10000, The 480 volt/ 200 amp service is a pipe dream. The serious questions to Tesla: 1. How do I get a 480 volt service in my house? 2. What current capacity does this 480 volt service have to be to achieve the "quick charge"/ 3. Where will I find a 480 volt service on the road. 4. Quote a real trip from LA to SFO using a recharge along the way (if needed). 5. Where do I carry the spare battery for the "5 minute battery swap"? 6. When you quote range, do you include mountainous country, like in the western USA? How about a trip from Reno to Sacramento? You get regeneration on the way down, but you DO have to get "over the hill" first. BOTTOM LINE: this is a knockabout car with exceptional acceleration good for short, near to home trips or commuting. Comfort will be severely limited with the reluctance of the driver to use either the heater or air conditioning. Again, send me your email address, and I can go into this stuff in some detail, far beyond where I have taken you so far.
2009-08-12 18:26:50
Why is everyone so negative on this annoucement
Not everything about the Volt is negative. The Volt uses a stationary engine not connected to the driveline. It runs at one speed, charging the batteries and providing electricity for the motors. This makes the old dirty problems of differentials, transmissions, clutches and demand to have a variable speed IC engine be efficient and clean. A single speed IC engine gasoline, or preferably diesel can be made very clean. Diesel would be best, having much higher efficiency than gasoline (Otto Cycle).

It should correctly be classified as an "electric drive" car, not an electric car. The electric car implies all electric plug-in. These make no sense at all, limited in range and massively inconvenient in charging. The Volt can also be plugged in, getting about 40 miles before the engine turns on. No need to find a charging station, and the short trips are very inexpensive.

I am hopeful of the Volt because it breaks the bonds of the hybrid that has only been useful for short start-stop trips. Hybrids have limited horsepower and long trips, up long hills they are a disaster. Hybrids are at their best for fleets such as busses, delivery trucks, garbage trucks. The Prius is bested by the diesel powered VWs that are quiet, clean and very efficient. They do just as good in mileage as the Prius, but without all of the drawback of this underpowered "town car" that is at its best when making a statement on how ecologically aware the driver is.

The problems with the Volt are two:

1. It is made by GM, Government Motors. GM burned its equity years ago, and with the government running it, people will be loath to buy this car, as good as it is.

2. Cost: It costs WAY too much for what it delivers. The technology is great, but the implementation is to bad that its competition is around 1/2 the price. This car would have to be positioned in a "entry luxury" vehicle, that won't do much for GM or anything else

It is a pity that this great technology has come from a company that has lost all respect in the industry and is full of excessive cost and high priced results.

Mabe the Volt II will fare better?
2009-08-12 19:09:35
Short Sighted
Good comments. The plug-in will never be anything but a golf cart. Forgetaboutit.

I have a comment on the "NGL". I assume you meant Liquified Natural Gas? In any case, the efficiency of the IC engine is dependent on the Thermodynamic Cycle (TC) not the fuel. the fuel only allows the TC to have the required temperature to achieve the theoretical efficiency. Most gasoline engines use the Otto Cycle, In practice, in steel engines, this limit is about 37% LNG may attempt to improve this by allowing increasing compression ratio, but in practice the Otto Cycle is ultimately limited by spontaneous detonation (knock, preignition). LNG, like alcohol improves the situation somewhat, but only by changing the cycle does any real efficiency improve. The Diesel Cycle, inherently NEEDING spontaneous ignition has better efficiency because of much higher pressure. With newer designs from Germany, is clean and quiet.

LNG is difficult to deliver: it ia a liquid under high compression. There is no infrastructure. Actually, if you want to use a liquified gas, use propane. It has higher energy density and the infrastructure is more widespread. Propane does come from petroleum.

Diesel has never had a following in this country. Too bad, because the infrastructure exists and the modern automobile engines are efficient, clean and quiet.

In any case, there really is nothing much wrong with any of these. The atmospheric pressure liquid fuels are the most efficient and easy to transport, store and deliver. Much of the problem of these fuels is in the implementation in inefficient engine designs. A Diesel engine operated as the prime mover in the GM Volt is the best of all worlds. It can be refined for single speed operation with the highest efficiency, noise and emissions. For the USA, the best single word is: DRILL. There is nothing, even in the wildest imaginations that can deliver a better prime mover energy source than atmospheric liquid fuels, the best being diesel.
2009-08-12 23:41:19
Short Sighted
Larry,

Thank you greatly for all of the excellent input. It is good to hear from someone that can put all of this in proper context without the political agenda of one side or the other.
2009-08-13 09:01:07
Short Sighted
Agreed....I'm not very well versed in the NGL thermodynamics....however as far as an "easily" transportable fuel it would fall closer into the catagory of what is seen with gasoline. The infrastructure would require even more massive spending than is already being spend on repairing our nations roads (which, to me, spending to improve roads is counter-intuitive to reducing our dependence on private transport vs. investment in mass transit/high speed rail) and I would estimate take several years to get a remotely decent base in place. This is why the most viable option IMHO is to increase efficiency via an overhaul of sorts to the internal combustion engine, or like you say shift towards more diesel use. Would certainly help clear the distillate overhang that will likely continue as global trade continues to remain sluggish over the next few years.
2009-08-13 10:09:39
Short Sighted
Interesting thoughts here. I agree 100% with shifting to more diesel use in autos. I've been driving VW diesels since 1998 and just bought an '09 Jetta TDI which I love. I think diesels are a perfect short-term solution while better technology is being developed. I wish the US auto mfrs would seriously consider bringing their diesels from Europe here - Who wouldn't want a 50mpg car that had the power to get out of its own way? Also agree the Volt would benefit from a small diesel for its electric power source. VW is working on a 70mpg diesel hybrid which might see production. I'd bet if they build the car it'll cost less than the Volt even considering the extra expense. The auto industry needs to market the advantages of diesels more for them to catch on here.
2009-08-13 13:48:11
Try Unique Chevy Malibu Hybrid
Chevy Malibu Hybrid is a hybrid car of its own kind unlike other hybrids. What it uses is an oversized engine starter that can restart the engine so frequently which mean the engine shuts down every time your Malibu Hybrid rolls to a stop for the green light, train crossing, rush hour traffic, pedestrains, etc The engine starter runs on 36 volt instead of normal 12 volt. This interesting car improves city mileage to par with highway mileage. It is a very simple concept. I would love to have that oversized engine starter in economical cars like Focuses or Cobalts or Aveos. Frequent stop shutterbugs would love this car!!
2009-08-13 15:17:48
Why is everyone so negative on this annoucement
Because they are invested in the status quo. Why change technologies? There are so many darned problems to work out! Notice that the externalized costs of gasoline cars in the form of emissions and pollution are not considered. F-U-D.
2009-08-14 22:19:49
Ridiculously ignorant commentator!
What a pathetically ignorant article!

" What happens when everyone everyone plugs in at once? "

What do you think happens EVERY single day when every one turns on the AC when it gets hot, everyone starts cooking dinner and turns on the lights and TV in the evening? It's called load balancing and it happens EVERY SINGLE DAY.

You're so ignorant that you think plugging in an EV charger INSTANTLY fills the battery?? The current draw is limited by the circuit it's plugged into... why do you think it takes 8 hours to charge an EV on a 110v outlet?

Why don't you brush up on BASIC electric theory before talking BS in a public forum.
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