Answers I Really Wanna Know: Have We Turned the Corner?

By Todd Harrison Nov 25, 2008 10:00 am
16% spike in two days could be bear market rally.
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  • How many fund managers spent the last three months making sales to raise capital only to see the S&P scoot 16% higher in the last eight market hours?

  • Sea shift consistent with our five surprises or do the sharpest rallies occur in the context of a bear market?

  • Why not both?

  • Are Jim Rogers and Mr. Practical both anticipating the “other side of the wishbone world?”

  • Is that the path of maximum frustration—the savers who did the right thing will soon see their measuring stick shrivel?

  • Are you watching the dollar as the single most important macro guide?

  • Or will we wake up one day and see an entirely more seismic shock?

  • Did you see crude pop 6% off this morning’s low when the Fed announced their latest, greatest multi-hundred billion initiative and the greenback flipped the Red Dye switch?

  • Who schedules a conference call for 9:00 AM before the market opens?

  • Barton Biggs sees “the mother of all bear market rallies” coming but he’s not playing it as a dysfunction of credit?


 


R.P.


Did you know the doors to Festivus 2008 are officially open? Have you yet locked your spot for the critter trot as last year's soiree sold out? (This is our annual event to commingle our professors, partners and Minyans while chowing down and listening to live music. The very best part? It's for the kids in the good name of my grandfather.)

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Positions in DRYS, DXO, WFT

Todd Harrison is the founder and Chief Executive Officer of Minyanville. Prior to his current role, Mr. Harrison was President and head trader at a $400 million dollar New York-based hedge fund. Todd welcomes your comments and/or feedback at todd@minyanville.com.

The information on this website solely reflects the analysis of or opinion about the performance of securities and financial markets by the writers whose articles appear on the site. The views expressed by the writers are not necessarily the views of Minyanville Media, Inc. or members of its management. Nothing contained on the website is intended to constitute a recommendation or advice addressed to an individual investor or category of investors to purchase, sell or hold any security, or to take any action with respect to the prospective movement of the securities markets or to solicit the purchase or sale of any security. Any investment decisions must be made by the reader either individually or in consultation with his or her investment professional. Minyanville writers and staff may trade or hold positions in securities that are discussed in articles appearing on the website. Writers of articles are required to disclose whether they have a position in any stock or fund discussed in an article, but are not permitted to disclose the size or direction of the position. Nothing on this website is intended to solicit business of any kind for a writer's business or fund. Minyanville management and staff as well as contributing writers will not respond to emails or other communications requesting investment advice.

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(10)
2008-11-25 11:00:03
worthless info
most of these comments are so tied up in jargon and cute phrases such that they are meaningless to the average investor if they have any meaning at all!
2008-11-25 12:15:59
worthless info
It took me a couple of months to begin to understand, and I learn more every day. The jargon is part of the underlying themes. I have made more money while reading this site than any other. But it is run by a bunch of day traders, so much of the horizon is rather short term.
2008-11-25 12:34:16
breadth
I can see how the all-too-visible hand of government intervention has made watching the banking sector (the "piggies") less valid as a trading cue. I do not see how measures of the broadness of market trends might have been affected, however.

So, both Jim Rogers and our friend Mr. P. have decamped. Shrewd traders both. My take-away from that observation would be, at the very least, any American reading this site ought to pay more attention to markets and conditions outside the US.

To Jim and Ron: the *fun* stuff here is the short-term time horizon. (bravo Toddo) But to read Mr. P, or the Jim Rogers and Barton Biggs links referenced, is to look at a considerably longer term view.
2008-11-25 14:56:23
Early party reservations?
"Are Jim Rogers and Mr. Practical both anticipating the “other side of the wishbone world?”

I think they have gotten their sky box seats reservations a little early. Not wrong, but possibly early.

Lets see:

Credit crisis:
Not all banks bailed out yet
Derivatives not settled
Trust not restored amongst banks

Economic Crisis:
Just unfolding
Jobs getting shed at an increasing rate
Consumers changing habits away from credit?
Consumer getting further squeezed
Eurozone hurting
Japan hurting
Not even close to 50% through this

So where is the demand for commodities or equities going to come from in the near future. What about further redemption to pay of debts?

Even if the government ties reflation now, the net could still be zero or deflation for the near term. Inflation requires growth (and I would expect quite a bit of it in the future)
2008-11-25 15:02:56
Early party reservations?
A better statement would be inflation requires growth that it can feed off of and reduce, leading to stagflation.

Even worse would be "reciflation", where we stay in recession, and the rest of the world comes out of it, so inflation gets us with everything we need becoming more expensive, and our assets are worth a fraction of what they were beforehand.

Lets keep our fingers crossed, and hope there are real programs for growth, the only way out of this (since I don't think we can try the credit, housing, etc. bubbles again for a while).
2008-11-25 16:47:16
Early party reservations?
Inflation requires growth? I would check your history on that. The fiercest inflationary storms have occurred as a result of currency debasement (actual currency debasement, not failed credit expansion a la Japan) during recessionary/depressionary periods. Mr. P and Jimmy Rogers are looking to inflation as a result of direct currency debasement along the lines of quantitative easing. While numerous asset classes will certainly (continue to) deflate due to nature of the coming deflation (ie. anything tied directly to consumer discretion; this includes McMansions,) others will most definitely soar.
2008-11-25 23:17:18
Todd: Great set of very terse comments and inside jokes. This is a crazy market. Wish I had loaded up on BHP before their bid for RTP was canceled. I see weakness in WFT as an excuse to buy in the next week, assuming it falls to the right price. Happy Thanksgiving. This may be the first holiday in a long time where I feel like the Turkey, who may be the dumbest bird in the animal kingdom. Folklore says that a turkey who opens his mouth to catch the rain is a dead duck soon thereafter (supposedly because he drowns or chokes to death).
2008-11-26 07:36:17
Early party reservations?
Robert,

Can you give some examples where inflation was occurring during a severe recession in any country?

I would like to read up on it.

Thanks,
Elias
2008-11-26 12:19:21
Early party reservations?
Consider the Weimar period in Germany.
2008-12-06 10:27:27
Early party reservations?
How about the U.S. throughout the 1970's.
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