China Shuns Treasuries

By Andrew Jeffery Jan 08, 2009 1:15 pm
Domestic borrowing costs could rise.
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China, now the biggest holder of US government debt, is going on a buyer's strike.

As a flight from risky financial assets pushed Treasury yields close to nil -- and as the once-red-hot Chinese economy dried up -- China's appetite for Treasuries has waned. If the trend persists, it could lead to higher borrowing costs at a time American consumers can barely afford the mountanous debt they already have. 

The New York Times reports China's government is keeping more of it's vast cash reserves at home, choosing to invest in its own infrastructure rather than plow money into an investment earning them virtually nothing. Chinese banks, once encouraged to invest money abroad and actively lend to foreign borrowers, are now being urged to keep that money within their own borders.

Lower demand for US debt would lead to lower bond prices, pushing up yields. And since the Treasury market typically sets the benchmark for private borrowing, this would translate into higher rates for mortgages, credit cards and other types of consumer debt.

It's no coincidence that as Chinese appetite for American debt dried up last year, the Federal Reserve began to aggressively buy the assets China no longer wanted. Heavily invested in Treasuries, along with mortgage-backed securities issued by Fannie Mae (FNM) and Freddie Mac (FRE), China's voracious appetite for US debt is being supplanted by that of our own government.

Few experts however, expect China to abandon Treasuries altogether. Such a drastic move would effectively destroy the US economy, which would in turn be disastrous for China, not to mention the rest of the world. Still, each time the government bails out a company like General Motors (GM), Citigroup (C) or AIG (AIG) its standing with debt holders slips.

The timing couldn't be worse for the incoming administration. Promising to keep the deficit upwards of a trillion dollars for the foreseeable future, President-Elect Obama is counting on new debt issuances to finance his aggressive stimulus plan.

Without Chinese demand, Obama will be forced to rely on the Federal Reserve to be the buyer of last resort. As the Fed prints money to buy our own debt, however, each of the precious dollars Obama is pumping into the economy is worth less and less.

If this all sounds eerily familiar, it should.

A certain financial deviant, now a household name, ran a massive Ponzi scheme by repaying early investors with the money of the most recent suckers. His actual holdings were worthless - much like debt issued by a country teetering under the weight of its own massive, bloated balance sheet.

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(16)
2009-01-08 13:26:55
Banks
Now the UK has cut rates to a historic low and punish and deter savers, where are the banks going to get the money from to give to the borrowers?
2009-01-08 14:41:35
Digging out of the debt hole
" President-Elect Obama is counting on new debt issuances to finance his aggressive stimulus plan. "

There are several possibilities of where the money could come from:

1. Further redemptions from the stock market, and a continued flight to safety.
2. Foreigners buying the debt. As you point out they have their own problems and are more reluctant to do so. But they still need our trade
3. Printing money. Fight net deflation but increase government debt.
4. Raising rates to make treasuries more attractive. But this will hit the economy harder, but encourage savings.

Sure makes for an interesting computer simulation, analysis? #3 and #1 seem most likely to increase. As you point out, #2 likely will decrease. #4 would hurt.

When growth returns (and we will need as much of it as possible), people will have their assets reduced in value, and now be responsible for an even larger government debt. No wonder there is such talk of future inflation.



2009-01-08 14:51:48
Digging out of the debt hole 2
For individuals, first there is the reduction of personal debt, then maybe some savings can take place. Why save at 1%, when the credit card is 9, 13, 28%?

People and countries act in their own self-interest.

Jenny now says, "Let it go"!

Got to go out and make some real bacon (income and growth)
2009-01-08 16:17:54
Moving to the Middle Kingdom (or Ground!)
I too am shunning Treasuries and moving into intermediate corporates, muni's and Ginnie Maes. With all the government guarantees, I might as well earn 4-5% while I wait for inflation in 2010. Common stocks will have one or two bounces in this bear market, but it's for traders only.
2009-01-08 17:40:27
Moving to the Middle Kingdom (or Ground!)
Just make sure no one will default. John Mauldin and others point out that certain municipalities and even states assumed a 9% market return (2004 number) to balance their books.
2009-01-08 18:32:22
Digging out of the debt hole

such clarity regarding zero/negative returns on US debt seems to be missed by many professors on this site...

so now the "other show has dropped".... as much as i respect the various "deflationistias" analytical capacity on this site, it seems their view of the world is VERY usa-centric. mentions of global risks such as the middle east as well as china's HIGHLY TELEGRAPHED (october 2008 and perhaps prior) position on US Debt are *almost* invisible. [*economist* mag also had a recent article to this effect, end dec 08]

for instance on 25 december 08, did *ANY& professor care to note that china and russia will now do business directly in rubles and yuan?

anybody... anybody... bueller... bueller???

on the SAME day china also announced that they were going to begin doing business in yuan directly among other asian trading partners? why was THIS little tidbit NOT REPORTED AT ALL here?

reminds me of a grander version of "california ueber alles" by the disposable heroes of hiphopricy[props to DK's earlier work] ... but in this case.... usa ueber alles?

is there an actual "world"... "out there"??? if i don't believe it -- it doesn't exist??? is there anyting beoynd those blue oceans, really?

well i think the deflation argument is about to find out... slowly... painfully... as slowly they describe their deflation scenario... the chinese/world will act MORE slowly and MORE surely... <we shall hope anyway!>

--

basically, why is it that the professors here seem to be engaging in some sort of usa-centric austrian-school economics group think? i don't have a problem w/the austrian-school but i do have a problem w/NOT including THE REST OF THE WORLD into these financial scenarios.

i also don't belive what SHOULD be done equates in any way whatsoever to what WILL be done but that's my own philosophical conundrum... bring back the D-mark!


2009-01-08 18:35:16
Moving to the Middle Kingdom (or Ground!)

heard that Morgan Stanley bonds, 8% "guaranteed" rougly par 92 are returning higher than that.... for reasons already well described on this site however.

---

furthermore "world bonds" spread over roughly 50 countries.... 15 month duration?

--

i myself am not up w/bonds much but they seem good! too good???
2009-01-08 20:10:47
US market
I closed out my last trade on the US market last week, as a UK resident I do not trust the US market any more... and I only traded US indices!!!! not shares!... but they are so fiddled with by the US gov to prop up the feeble emperor has no clothes situation... USofA aka MADoffA with the rest of the worlds money so no thank you any more

2009-01-08 20:16:00
Kinda happy, actually
I'm actually kinda happy the Chinese have slowed their Treasury buying.

We need to unwind this thing in orderly fashion as possible. We need our jobs and manufacturing back. We need to live within our means and foreigners need to work on the problems that cause them to invest with us instead of their own countries.

And yeah, I know that means T-shirts might go back to being $20 instead of $5. We've been living in a "fake" economy for too long where the price of real things is way too low because the Chinese have been playing with the currency.

There's pain ahead but we might get through if we can rip that band-aid off slowly...
2009-01-08 20:33:11
Digging out of the debt hole
Last time I looked, when someone sold stocks and bought treasuries, someone was on the other side of each transaction, hence no new money, so #1 may not matter.
2009-01-08 20:36:02
Digging out of the debt hole
Tim, regarding the need to include the rest of the "world" in the economic analysis on this site, I would argue that there is no decoupling of trade and the USA has the largest capital and consumer market in the "world" as measured by GDP. Most foreign financial writers, especially in Hong Kong, acknowledge this and focus on the USA-centric moves. A lot of Chinese exports are simply USA companies "exporting" manufactured goods to themselves. We may have a hang up on being the center of the universe, but, until China and others have a siognificantly higher domestic consumer market, it is what it is!
2009-01-08 20:36:30
Kinda happy, actually
Last chance to buy t-shirts and sell treasuries. Get 'em while you can!
2009-01-09 09:18:24
Kinda happy, actually
A business idea: sell cheap T-shirts that say "Buy Treasuries - no returns but still one heck of a nice country anyway."
2009-01-10 17:35:19
Paco Ahlgren on Treasuries and the slipping dollar
If you haven't already, you might enjoy seeing what Paco Ahlgren has been writing about Treasuries.

Paco Ahlgren has written extensively recently about the Treasury bubble.

experienceiseverything.blogspot.com

2009-01-10 23:21:01
Everyone needs the USA?
It's interesting how the notion of: "China won't stop buying US Debt, they need us too much" is taken for granted.

Here is a communist country, that has made its enemy into an indentured servant. We quickly forget that they have killed millions of people during the cultural revolution. They have far more effective means of dealing with civil unrest than the western world does.

On the global front, if any country complains about Darfur, China waves their politcal hand as though it were some Jedi mind trick and the matter is forgotten.

On the other front, the last two winters, Russia has reminded the EU that they are more than willing to use energy as a strategic deterrent. Much cleaner than a bomb, but equally effective.

We should not be too puffed up over our own importance. It has dwindled significantly.

In the end, will the USA be divided up like the Ottoman empire was when they could not repay their international debts? Time will tell.
2009-03-13 13:53:25
Chinas Treasuries
U.S. Treasuries are facing the most dramatic period in history. Remember that no debt based economy has ever lasted a prolonged period of time. Most true free market proponents have been correctly predicting this meltdown and the eminant Bond market bubble. When that happens the U.S. will come to a standstill. Things are a lot worse over here for the average person than the media is letting on to and I see no solution. Bailing out our banking monopoly and major corps, is not a solution. It is at best a fix enjoyed by the investor class.
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